[Techtalk] Gender as a weapon? Pen-testing and female auditors

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

Hello there,
I guess that a robot male like me should not interfere here, but ...

> 	Seventeen "will you date me" mails and two marriage proposals
> later (sigh), I had a few intelligent reasonable replies. There is
> strong community demand for me to write a case study about my
> experiences testing security, it seems. I'm up for it, but I want to
> keep it professional and interesting without encouraging anyone to
> treat me like a piece of meat. I am still very of two minds about
> using my sexuality in my line of work. Yes, it could be devastatingly
> effective, and the point of a vulnerability assessment is to test the
> strength of their defenses. Holding back or refusing seems like doing
> less than a full job. And in an industry where it actually does kind
> of suck to be a girl sometimes, it seems mad not to use every
> advantage I've got. But on the other hand, I can't constantly be
> telling me people "just treat me like any other geek, not like a piece
> of meat" and then turn around and act like a piece of meat. That's
> hypocritical.

I would keep it as a secret weapon in case you need it. This kind of
"social engineering tool" reaches best efficiency when unnoticed.
I know this is often used to make me buy something or accept facts I
disagree with. How could I dare to deceive that pretty charming voice
asking me how much I pay for the challenging dsl operator ? I know I am
ready to fall, well, easily, but knowing it helps. I would classify it
with other men's and women's social skills that breake my "natural
resistance to marketing techniques".
I guess, that gender issue is mutual and should be efficient from and to
both genders.
When I notice that that pretty person is trying to circumvene my
defenses, I actually begin to disregard that person and the whole
company she is representing. I guess, that's what you'll call "becoming
a piece of meat".
I try to be nice to people so I may be using somthing similar too, but I
guess that the limit is at that point : doing it purposly, knowing you
are doing it just to reach your goal (hypocrisy) or just "being that
way" (natural empathy).

On the other hand, no one is innocent ... 
 
> 	I normally solve this problem by staying mostly on the tech side
> of the house and letting others do the social engineering.  I'm a
> rotten liar anyway.  But the few times that I have even dipped my toes
> in, it's been shockingly effective.  But ew.  Slimy.

I read different things, like :
If you want to know about someone's personality, give him/her Power.
or even :
The most powerful weapon is the one you don't need to use.

I mean : if you feel unconfortable doing things, don't do them. I use it
as a primary rule. Unlike you, I cannot lie, even at my job. This is a
major handicap, but I just feel unconfortable, I don't want to accept
myself as a liar, so I try not to lie.
I guess that I just try to imagine the consequences, what people will
think of me, even if they will never know. It's just about 'me, myself
and I', 
 
> 	So, I'd like to poll some other geekfemmes.

oops, I'm wrong here, ... are robots accepted ?

> If you have any
> stories about being able to get what you wanted in a tech capacity or
> a social engineering capacity, and you think being a girl had anything
> to do with it (or, conversely, if you're a guy who has used his
> sexuality to social engineer), I'd love to hear about it.

At my office, we hired a woman for the technical staff, but
unfortunately, she had to leave a couple of months later. I noticed that
change of attitude, when I introduced her to customers. The boss at most
of our customers were men, and were quite smiling ... I cannot deny this
result. It just ... exists.

> Is it okay to do this sort of thing?  Is it encouraging or setting
> back feminism?

Your main question will be : If I succeed, is it because I am efficient
at my job or because I look pretty ?
Maybe both, maybe looking pretty is just a bonus, that little plus that
will set you on top of other's choices.

Anyhow, do what you think is "right".

bye,

R. Daneel Olivaw,
The Robot Inside