[Techtalk] High speed access question

Raven, corporate courtesan raven at oneeyedcrow.net
Wed Oct 3 13:45:06 EST 2001

Heya --

Quoth Kath (Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 01:05:26PM -0400):
> Now when I go to say, Verio and ask for a channelized T3, do they go to the
> ILEC and have the ILEC do the line from the school to the CO and then Verio
> picks up from the CO to the Verio network (A bit like how the data CLECs and
> the ILECs work?)?

	Most ISPs don't own their own large runs of local-loop fiber.
So though you'll be traveling over the backbone of the ISP, they almost
always have to get your LEC to provide the copper or fiber for the local
loop.  This has been the source of headaches for many an ISP, especially
when the LEC is in the internet business themselves, and is disinclined
to give reseller circuits any sort of good service.  But yes, it's
almost exactly how data CLECs and ILECs work.
> Or would there have to be a dry run between the main access point for the
> district and a Verio facility?  I'm hoping its the first, as the ILEC CO is
> literally next door to the school.

	Not unless Verio is very weird.  Most ISPs will run from their
closest POP through the LEC to you.  So your line would most likely go
through that nearby CO.
> For a Tier1/2 provider, whats the best recommendation? 

	Oooh.  I'm biased -- I work for a Tier 1 provider.  Without
getting my own company involved, I'll just give you my opinions on some
of the other major players.  Sprint sucks.  They have a very draconian
peering policy that can make it difficult or slow for you to get to
sites other providers host.  UUNet/Worldcom is decent, and you get very
attentive customer service, but you will pay through the nose for it.  I
don't have much personal experience with Verio.  Applied Theory is
decent, too.

> I'd rather go
> right to Verio, but I know AppliedTheory does a lot of other services
> (setting up routers and such).  Does Verio do the same?

	I don't know -- but most providers offer some sort of managed
care product, where they retain ownership and configuration power over
the router, and you're essentially just renting it from them.  It's very
common; I can't think of a Tier 1 that doesn't do that.
> Now, on equipment.  Does this mean I'll need a Crisco and CSU/DSU on both
> ends of each line between the other schools and the main access point (the
> HS)?  Would a 2500 be enough on each end?

	Many of the Ciscos now have embedded CSU/DSUs on their cards, so
you won't need an external one.  The 2500 series are fairly old, and do
need the external CSU/DSUs, but they can easily handle a T1, and two
T1's in some models.  The newer version is the 2600 series -- same size
and functionality, but better hardware, modular WIC cards with embedded
CSU/DSU so that if one fails, you can replace the card and not the whole

	You will need a router and CSU/DSU on each end of every T1.  So
for the high school, if you have 10 or so T1s terminating into it and a
couple T3's going out, you're probably looking at a 7200 model.

	Talk to your sales people about hardware coverage.  If you buy
your own hardware, make sure you get a replacement clause in case of
hardware failure from Cisco.
> Elem School Router --> Opposite router at HS --> Priv Network Switch -->
> Firewalls --> Main Router to Provider

	Yah, that sounds sensible to me.


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 software in an anonymous forun so that others will be reminded of the
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 -- the WAY over the top Homeland Cyber Defense Initiative, 

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