[Techtalk] why is Active X in web pages evil, but not Perl/PHP/Javascript?

[Kai MacTane]

At 1/20/05 01:06 PM , Almut Behrens wrote:
>On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 11:31:13AM -0800, Kai MacTane wrote:
> > At 1/20/05 12:10 AM , Almut Behrens wrote:
> >
> > >Next, once they've actually installed Firefox, it of course has to
> > >compete with that other browser they love so much, so we need to supply
> > >a "fully" functioning alternative with all the nifty features you
> > >cannot live without, like ActiveX.  Sure.  So we just do it, it doesn't
> > >cause too much of a headache to implement under Windoze, after all.
> >
> > Note that even under Windows, the ActiveX extension is just that: an
> > extension. If you really, really *need* (or just "really, really *want*")
> > ActiveX functionality in your Firefox browser, you have to ...
>
>no, no, NO! ... I guess there's a huge misunderstanding! ;-)
>Maybe I haven't expressed myself clearly (or I'm totally misreading
>you here).  The prospective scenario I tried to describe is what I'd
>consider quite a nightmare... and the tone was meant to be at least
>mildly cynical.  Wasn't that clear?? <honestly interested>

It was quite obvious you considered it a nightmare scenario, and I suppose 
the cynical tone came through, too. Although the tone didn't seem to matter 
all that much, compared with the fact that you see this all as a *bad 
thing*. (And I completely agree with you; this would be horrible, if it 
happened!)

The thing I disagree with is that you seemed (to me) to be painting it as a 
scenario that might actually happen. I wanted to point out that the 
possibility of this coming to pass looks (again, to me) to be so 
exceedingly remote, I'm not even going to worry about it.

[reads back over the specifically quoted text above] I think I see the 
problem. When I said "If you really, really *need* ActiveX...", I didn't 
mean you _personally_. I meant "If one really, really needs...". Sorry 
about that. That dual use of "you" is a long-standing ambiguity in English, 
and I'm sorry it bit you. (Even native speakers sometimes need to 
double-check what was intended.)

I meant that people currently have to jump through extra hoops just to get 
ActiveX in Firefox, and that it isn't shipped as any part of the standard 
installation. And that I don't think that's going to change.

> > Given that Firefox advocates (myself included) have been touting the 
> *lack*
> > of ActiveX as a feature, I really, really can't imagine they'd ever ship
> > this particular extension with the browser. Even on the Windows platform.
>
>Funny.  My impression was quite the opposite (that's why I posted this
>rant in the first place...)  I originally very much liked the Firefox
>project, but now, I have that vague feeling that at least some of the
>developers would try to push Firefox at any price, just to attract a
>large user base...   I can't really cite any threads or discussion
>snippets, but all in all, that's the conclusion I've drawn from various
>stuff I picked up on the Net, and from friends and collegues...

Ah, I think *this* is the real difference of opinion between us. (I 
wouldn't even say "disagreement"; that's too strong a word.)

I do agree that some Firefox partisans would push it at any cost... you get 
people like that in almost any movement. But I don't think many (if any) of 
them are on the development team, and I think they're a distinct minority.

>But maybe I'm all wrong...  Actually, in that particular case, I'd be
>glad to be wrong ;)

I think (and sincerely hope) that you're wrong about their number, and 
their influence. Especially since they'd be throwing away one of Firefox's 
strengths.

>Almut
>(who'd never want to get labeled as an ActiveX advocate... <shudder>)

I did not for a moment, not in my wildest fancies, think you were 
*advocating* the scenario you described. It was quite obvious you meant it 
as a cautionary tale or a foretelling of doom.

                                                 --Kai MacTane
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm terrified, intoxicated, starry-eyed and bollock naked,
  Child-bearing, adult-rated, and thoroughly re-educated..."
                                                 --Carter USM,
                                                  "Re-Educating Rita"