[Techtalk] The whole RH8 debate (Long)

[caitlynmaire at earthlink.net]

Hi, everyone,

I've been reading this thread with interest.  RH 8.0 has become our
corporate standard.  (We tested the null beta extensively before making
this decision.)  IMHO, RH 8.0 is one release where Red Hat definitely
got it right.  We mainly do custom installs for servers and for some
knowledgeable users' laptops (i.e.: sysadmins, developers).  There are
packages that aren't in any of the pre-chewed installations that we may
choose to use.  We're in cost-cutting mode at work, and if any of the
execs, sales people, or support staff decide they want to try Linux I
will definitely go with a "Personal Desktop" install.  What they would
need would be OpenOffice, KDE or Gnome2, Evolution (we have an Exchange
server still, but not for too much longer), Mozilla or Netscape, Cisco
VPN client, GnomeMeeting, VNC (for me to support them), and perhaps
MrProject.  One or two could actually use Bluefish.  Compilers?  They
wouldn't know a compiler from a compressed file and really don't care to
know.

RH 8.0 doesn't give you every package under the sun the way SuSe or
Mandrake do, but they don't give you a lot of bugs either.  Their new
graphical admin tools are well thought out and wonderful when I need to
talk a user through an issue.  Many would be terribly uncomfortable at
the command line but have no problem with "just click here", or "just
fill in the box on the top right with xyz".

As I've already posted, installation on our laptops is a piece of cake. 
I assume an rpm for the linmodem drivers is just around the corner.

BTW, did anyone notice that installing X was very clearly now optional
on the Server installs?  We don't need no stinkin' GUI on a DNS
server or a CVS repository used strictly by developers.  I did put X on
our backup servers (running Amanda) so that my Windows-centric manager
could feel comfortable with it in case both admin experienced Linux
people were out.  He still would have to open a terminal window to run
amcheck after changing tapes (we use amanda for enterprise backups), but
he's comfortable enough doing that from my docs.

The point:  there are more install options than ever, and all are
configurable.  Easy installation is a good selling point for the
corporate world.

> 	There was no obvious 'crippling' I could see; things worked just
> fine.

Agreed.

> I did note that the install route I took did not put KDE on by
> default -- but it's a simple click to do so. I happen to think this is
> a good idea, since KDE has become a real pig in the last year, and
> anyone with less than one ton of memory and dual processors (okay, I'm
> exaggerating a little) might be put off by how long it takes to load,
> and how sluggish it is. During the same period, gnome actually seems
> to have gotten faster.

Agreed on all points, but Gnome2 doesn't have a menu editor, so I can't
simplify things for the less sophisticated users as easily until I make
up a default set of config files.  KDE is more configurable and, at this
point, still more user friendly.  The weakest machine we still have in
the field are IBM Thinkpad T20s, all with at least 256MB of RAM and
700MHz processors.  KDE isn't bad on those, and is quite spritely on an
R31 (1.13 GHz processor).  The recent layoffs allowed me to retire all
the Thinkpad 600s.  

> 	Don't get me wrong. I'm not a redhat fan -- and in fact have
> probably cursed it more than any other distro. I don't use it as my
> main, either (debian). But they've done a very good job of getting
> things arranged and useful, and improved the first impression over the
> 7.x series. More things worked more easily than with any other distro
> I've loaded. Credit where credit is due.

Agreed.  I run Red Hat at home because it's our corporate standard, and
the more I use it the more I run into and the more I know.  *If* I were
living in a vacuum and could run whatever I felt like it'd probably be
Slackware or Vector Linux.  I don't live in a vacuum.  RedHat has the
best corporate support, plus, in our case, we're supporting a local
company.  Both issues score points with management.

> 	Nope, no mp3 player. That requires a small download.

FreshRPMs is a great place to get "missing" Red Hat packages. 

http://freshrpms.net/

Also, it seems when developers package up their apps, Red Hat is almost
always first.  My default desktop, for example, is icewm, which isn't
included with the distro.  (I like it's speed, configurability, and
simplicity.)  RH rpms are always available on the SourceForge site.  I
did my usual hack to the default Xclients file, and for one gdm
recognized my chosen default.  I was also impressed that Blackbox (not
included with RH 8 but installed on my machine) showed up on my list of
possible sessions.  Clearly the RH developers finally got the message
that not everyone likes their choice of WMs.

> In a
> 	But let me point out that nothing I tried to do on the system
> could not be done -- with Linux, all roads lead to Rome, and it's just
> a quesiton of whether you want to start in gaza like me, with debian,
> or start in the suburbs with redhat.

Agreed.  Again, people have to remember the difference between the
corporate "real" world and the geek world.  I straddle that fence
because my work forces me to keep a foot in both places.

> 	I have found things to like in all the distros, and things to
> dislike. But the propagation of the 'crippled' hack at redhat appears
> to be a combination of rumor and confusion without any significant
> basis in reality -- and comparitively, I think the 'average desktop
> user' (who is clearly a windows user) would find the immediate
> functionality of redhat to be very valuable indeed.

I agree 100%.

All the best,
Caity