[techtalk] KDE / OpenSource

[Dan Nguyen]

Hello Caitlyn (again :)

On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:13:23PM -0400, Caitlyn M. Martin wrote:
> In order to sell to this client, I had to make Linux
> non-threatening, which I sucessfully did.  So...  the solution?
> Caldera OpenLinux eDesktop 2.4 and KDE/kwm.  I realize that combo
> makes some purists nauseous, but for weaning people from Windows,
> there is nothing better.  Once they decide that Linux is OK, then
> it's time to move them further.  They have to crawl before they
> walk.

I understand, but I'm from the "throw the little kid into the pool" if
they sink jump in and rescue them, if the float great. :)

> I can't quite agree.  While I find the CLI more efficient for some
> things, there are pretty much good graphical tools for everything.
> The thing is, to use them well, you still need an understanding of
> how it all works.  Let's say I'm running Caldera, and using COAS,
> for example, and I am unloading unnecessary daemons from the kernel.
> I still have to understand what those daemons are and what they do,
> don't I?

Many people will simply leave unnecessary daemons running because they
simply don't know what it does.  Stopping apache is much safer than
stopping xfs.  If you don't know what they do, you might not want to
stop them to avoid breaking your system.


> GUIs aren't evil, and they let the folks who are only interested in 
> application level stuff do their work.  Let's face it, most of the work that 
> makes most non-high tech businesses go is done by folks in operations, 
> sales, customer service, the warehouse, and so on.  To them the computer is 
> just a tool, and they really don't want to know how it works, only how to 
> make it do their job for them.

GUIs aren't evil, I do more work in a gui than in the console, but
most of my work, other than netscape, and icq are done in a little
small secton of the screen...

> There are some apps which are worth ignoring, and some which are
> simply brilliant.  My favorite so far is the mail client in KDE2.
> KMail is finally making me stop longing for a post of PMMail.
> Konqueror looks nice if they can get it to work properly, which so
> far it doesn't.  The frames support is pretty broken, for example.
> KIllustrator is quite nice, and the whole KOffice suite looks really
> promising.

Gnome 2.0 will have Evolution, the Outlook clone.  But I have a
working mail reader.  Mutt, which is highly configurable curses (or
slang) based mail reader.  Using procmail, I sort my mail into
directories, and from there it can thread the emails as if they were
news messages.  Quiet nice.

> > Their file browser, gmc, is very bloated and is
> > barely usable.
> 
> Agreed.  Again, KFM is pretty nice.

Nautalis for Gnome 2.0 will replace gmc, with an "explorer" like file manager

> >  My preference is to have several xterms (actually
> > Eterm) and work from there.
> 
> Eterm is eye candy, especially if you load the backgrounds, but I
> have to admit that it works well.  I do like it.

I have no problem with eye candy :)

> Thank you for the clarification.  The fact is, the KDE people and
> TrollTech both say it's fine to distribute it.  Maybe they need to
> fine-tune their license, but really, it's their call what to do with
> their product, isn't it?

If they did see a problem they will fix it.  However because KDE
contains a lot of outside code who's author believe would be released
under the GPL, it is difficult for KDE to change their license without
contacting everyone.

Debian uses the DFSG (Debian Free Software Guidelines) as their
criteria,  qt1 did not meet this guideline, but however are in the
Debian non-free archive.  Most people don't realize that qt2 does meet
the DFSG and will be released on Potato's Official Debian CDs.  Licq
which is also a gpl application which uses qt2 is included.  The Licq
authors were willing to give written permission to allow linking their
GPL code to the non-compatible QPL QT2.  It's up to KDE on wether they
would like their code to be shipped with Debian in the future.  


> I guess what set me off was someone with a gnu.org address throwing out a 
> gratuitous "Gnome is better/more free than KDE" post without a single 
> explanation.  That's like an obnoxious geek version of "My Pop is better 
> than your Pop".  We're adults here, aren't we?

I would hope we are all adults, but sometimes I seriously doubt it.  

-- 
     Dan Nguyen     |  It is with true love as it is with ghosts;
  nguyend7 at msu.edu  |  everyone talks of it, but few have seent it.
   dnn at debian.org   |                -Maxime De La Rochefoucauld