[prog] State of software engineering profession

Kathryn Andersen kat_lists at katspace.com
Tue Apr 15 21:37:19 EST 2003

On Tue, Apr 15, 2003 at 12:18:21AM -1000, Jimen Ching wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2003, Jenn Vesperman wrote:
> >On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 21:14, Jimen Ching wrote:
> >> To avoid any confusion.  Let me elaborate what I mean.  Because of this
> >> 'show us the code' mentality, the programmer is implying that it is ok to
> >> skip the design phase.
> >Ok. Here's where I jump to my feet and say 'What the hell are you
> >talking about?'
> >
> >'show us the code' means 'produce something, and we'll listen'. That can
> >be a well-thought-through design.
> I don't think so.  At least not in the free/open source software world.
> "Show us the code" usually means send in a patch.  The word 'code' has a
> very specific meaning in this world.  Of course, whether a 'plan' is
> needed depends on the feature being added.  If the feature is simple, the
> plan could be as easy as asking 'would this feature be useful?' But with
> more complex features, or features that might change entire sub-systems,
> then a more well thought-out plan is in order.

Look, *you* are the one who is completely misunderstanding what she
said, and you are misunderstanding it so repeatedly, even after it's
been explained to you more than once, that I'm starting to wonder if
you're *willfully* misunderstanding it.  Or that English isn't your
first language.

>From the moment this whole "show us the code" discussion started, I
understood it to be an allusion to the phrase "show us the money".
That idiom, "show us the money" means, "Hey, you are saying a lot
about what you will do, but I don't believe that you can make a purchase
until you show me that you actually have the money you need to make the

So, what she was saying, was, a sort of humourous thing, by analogy with
"show us the money" -- it was "hey, you are saying all these things, but
it is all vapourware until you actually have a program that is running:
show us the code."  In other words, instead of moaning and groaning and
complaining and disparaging people, prove to us that you have (a) real
solutions and (b) that they work.

But what are you doing -- you are raving on about patches!

You Have Missed The Point Completely.

And I'm getting a bit tired of it.

Kathryn Andersen
Men did not love Rome because she was great. She was great because
they had loved her.
	-- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy
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