[Actionchix] Re: OLD old LinuxChix logo and Brazil

Clytie Siddall clytie at riverland.net.au
Wed Mar 29 14:29:13 EST 2006


I think it's important, in this discussion, to accept that different  
cultures will react differently, and will need different pictorial  
descriptions.

On 28/03/2006, at 1:26 AM, Sulamita Garcia wrote:

> On 3/25/06, Val Henson <val.henson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wow.  A curvaceous woman dressed in bell bottoms, with a bare  
>> stomach,
>> a tight tank top, huge breasts, lots of jewelry, tons of makeup,
>> sunglasses, and a huge ponytail says "geek" to you?  It doesn't say
>> that to me, it says "I am an airhead, I spend my entire day thinking
>> about boys, and Britney Spears is my role model.  Oh yeah, those  
>> LInux
>> boys sure are cute!"  I wouldn't believe we were talking about the
>> same logo if you hadn't provided a link!  I guess this is a  
>> difference
>> in culture?

Yes, I would say so. We react according to our own assumptions, which  
are based on our cultural upbringing. To a Brazilian woman, the  
picture may well say, "I'm female AND I like computers!" There's a  
lot less defensiveness about being female, in some cultures, AFAIK.
>
> Well, yeah. I think you got it too serious. When I meet Linuxchix,  
> I was
> sick of the stereotype that if you are a women, or you are ugly or  
> you have
> brain.

Yes, I agree. We don't need to be more serious, more controlled, more  
analytical, more anything! We are female and we use computers in our  
own way. It's not a competition: it's about accepting who we are.

> Maybe is a brazilian culture, how can you think diferent when some
> "famous" bu^H^H women says (really) "I don't need to me smart know,  
> when I
> get old and everything point down, I will become an intellectual".

:D

I'd like to meet her!

I've got a calendar full of quotes like that: it's great!

> So the
> image said to me "yeah, I have breasts, I can use jewelry, I can  
> tech very
> well and I don't care about what you think".

Absolutely!

> But I spent the whole weekend thinking about it and I know the  
> brazilian
> culture is too permissive.

I don't think that's really the case, Sulamita. It is certainly more  
accepting of femininity: I think it celebrates femininity more.

> And I can figure out this image can be ofensive
> to some cultures. Here, the only time someone comment the logo was  
> about
> "you have a logo of a tiny curvaceous woman, I think this is  
> maintain the
> pressure for beauty". But I was in the middle of our conference and  
> had no
> time to wondering, so I forgot to ask for other impressions.

As long as she doesn't fit any particular stereotype, and could be a  
general woman, I don't think it's the body-image pressure. Not a  
woman with perfect, gravity-defying breasts, hips smaller than her  
chest, no stomach and legs that go up to her neck, for example! :D
>
> I noticed that LinuxChix Brazil is using the old old logo.  My guess
>> is that the culture in Brazil is different enough that that logo  
>> isn't
>> offensive, or less offensive.  I understand that,

It's good that we can do that. A Vietnamese Linuxchix, for example,  
if I can get together the time to start one, would undoubtedly show a  
Vietnamese woman in traditional clothing, the áo dài, and "coolie"  
hat, because that, to us, is a symbol of Vietnamese womanhood, which  
has never suffered from being underestimated. We are called 'the  
strong women" by our menfolk, and our strength is celebrated. So we  
are not defensive about being female. Being attractive is part of  
being female, being able to use a computer is also part of being  
female. The fact that we don't look tough, but are, is part of our  
reputation. ;)

>> and I think it's
>> great that there _is_ a LinuxChix Brazil and that you're using any
>> logo at all.  But I still get comments from (non-Brazilian) people
>> saying that they saw the LinuxChix Brazil web site and now they think
>> that LinuxChix is for women who just want to be looked at, who  
>> want to
>> hang out at Linux conferences and date the men who do Linux but don't
>> do anything with Linux themselves.  In other words, that logo makes
>> them think that LinuxChix is a group for women who like men who do
>> Linux, not women who do Linux themselves.

The Vietnamese logo might have some European people saying, "but she  
looks demure, obedient, is wearing old-fashioned clothing, people  
will think she's some kind of servant, or pin-up girl". That will be  
_their_ assumption, not ours. To a Vietnamese man or woman, she looks  
what she is: a lot of power in a cool package. ;)

I just discussed this with Trinh, who said, "Most Asian women are  
very, very powerful, so others shouldn't assume, they shouldn't  
assume at all."

(I have to keep reminding myself that girl is only 15... ;) )

But it _is_ about assumptions, and audience. A general Linuxchix logo  
will need to work with the assumptions of the majority audience, just  
as a localized one will.
>>
>> Are you aware of anyone who responds to the logo this way?  Have you
>> asked people outside of your LinuxChix group what they think  
>> LinuxChix
>> is about, based on the logo?

I think it's great! :D
>
> No, but I will ask. I will start this subject in our lists.
> Last month, I had that interview at GenderIT. The first of all  
> comments in
> the news forum was "women can't deal with a microwaves, how can  
> they deal
> with computers? they just know how to create pinky sites with  
> flowers and
> talk about makeup". So I intencionally made a pinky site, and  
> announce it
> like "instead flowers, high availability, instead makeup, parallel
> programming".

Well done, Sulamita!

I'd like to see that person describe exactly how the microprocessor  
in the microwave works...

> I ask this for a friend and he said that the logo gives the  
> impression of
> lack of responsability. I think I'm kind of people how don't like  
> anything
> too serious...

This also represents an audience section. I, too, like a tongue-in- 
cheek symbol, and I respond to them better. Seriousness turns me off.
>
> Anyone can use any logo they like.  LinuxChix doesn't exist as a legal
>> entity, and so we can't even pretend to control who uses the name on
>> the Internet.  I would personally prefer that the name "LinuxChix"
>> isn't associated with the old old logo, but there's nothing I can do
>> about it.
>
> I can understand. Can you show me the thread about the logo you  
> started?
> I don't think we will keep the old one, if the group decides to  
> change.

Please make sure that is what your group wants, and not what people  
outside the group want. This is _your_ logo. It should express the  
identity of your group.

> Although I must say that we in Brazil never felt like we were  
> really part of
> it anyway, because very often I sent some mails and they got no  
> response.
> But I think this whole discussion doesn't belongs to actionchix, maybe
> issues or girls-talk?
> I'm just posting this to say that I will support the majority  
> opinion. I
> think several can see things clear then one.

Very true. :)
>
> --
> "A little less conversation, a little more action please"
> -------------------------------------------------------------

:D

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm  
Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN




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